Mental Game Forum

Get insights into your game, and share your insight with other players.  Post a question directly for Jared and get advice about issues like tilt, confidence, focus, motivation, dealing with variance, and more.
You must be logged in to post Login Register

Search Forums:


 






One Issue with the process model

UserPost

4:15 pm
November 22, 2011


Placebo

Member

posts 18

Hi:)

When it is ok, i would have one further question to you regards to a topic of your

great book – it is about the process model:

Ideally i should go this way: I play for example a session -> I get some shortterm results -> then I am evaluating them (spotting variance, mistakes, etc…) -> finally I am analyzing some strategic stuff which has come up -> then I prepare for my next session (physical exercise, meditation, autogene training or other Warm-ups..) -> to very finally play my next session and then the circle is starting from new.


I am a professional poker player and I always wanna have a pretty structured day (I use for example a to do -ist, etc…):

Here is my personal problem:
I like to analyze for example special hands where I have some uncertainites directly after my session by posting the hands in a forum or ctach someone of my studygroup per skype up…

That is great, but i find myself then spending sometimes too much time for analyzing and it also eats so much mental energy from me, that I am way too often just not capable to direclty start with a short preperation after the theoretical work in order to play my next session – this ends up in way too long preperation-timeframes (where usually a 10-minutes meditation is for example enough for me to refocus and refresh, and also just clean my mind, I suddenly need to do it 30 minutes +).


The thing is that i need to play 3 sessions daily (~2h netto per session) to reach my volume-targets…


b/c of the described issue, i end up pretty often to just not reach the volume.


I have tried now a few times to mark every questionable hand or issue and only start with analysing and the theoretical work after all my sessions.

This works so far pretty good to me and it feels for me just better when i have one part of my work completely done (practice work) and then can do my other part of my job (theoretical work) without any time-pressure.


So in practice my process Model would look like:

Performance (Session) -> Results -> Evaluation (also marking hands and noting stuff down on what I wanna work, next to spotting variance, mistakes…) -> Preperation – > Session -> Results-> Evaluation -> Preperation..->… -> Evaluation -> Analyizing most of the stuff what came up during the sessions.


- I know that this might be not ideally, but can this be an alternative for me?

- Maybe some of your students had similar probs like me in the past?

- What you think about that?


Maybe you find some time,

Best Regards,

PlaceboSmile

7:37 am
December 1, 2011


Jared

New York City

Admin

posts 301

My number 1 rule is: Do what works. Clearly you're finding something that works. The main purpose of the Process Model is to tease apart the different stage/phases. In general poker players weren't even preparing, they were evaluating while playing, etc. That's not a problem for you. You have distinct stages. Which means, when you're preparing for example, that's what you're focused on. Having each of the stages distict is the primary goal.

How you then use each phase to create a productive work day is optional, and it sounds to me like you've found a great option that's working. If that changes. Reevaluate it, and make adjustments.


Great work!

Jared

7:05 pm
December 2, 2011


Placebo

Member

posts 18

Hey, thank you very much for your very helpful response:)

10:43 pm
December 16, 2011


Placebo

Member

posts 18

Hey:)

Maybe, one furhter, but this time short question (just think that a new thread would be maybe too much for the following question, so that I post it here):


I have a tilt-journal where I am spotting each day Varinace, make mental handhistories and just write my thoughts, feeling, logic, etc. down….

I am handwriting everythig.

This is somewhat uncomfortable, sometimes, tbh:)

Just curious, if you think that a spoken Tilt-Journal (recording MP3-files for instance) is equally effective as a handwritten Tilt-Journal?


Best Regards,

Placebo

12:23 pm
December 21, 2011


Jared

New York City

Admin

posts 301

First off, I love to hear that you're doing all this work in your journal after sessions! I'm honestly not 100% sure if it's equally effective. It sounds reasonable to me. I say give it a shot for 1 or 2 weeks. Then, evaluate it and see which you prefer. 

The end result might me that you like both and you can see value in doing 1 on tilting days and another on more standard days. (For example).

Let me know what you find!


10:04 pm
December 23, 2011


Placebo

Member

posts 18

Hey, thanks for answering:)

Yeah, i have tried it out now and writing seems a little more effective tbh, but also spoken journals are helpful.

So as you already many have suspected, i will continue wrting mostly on tough mental days and will make spoken journals on softer days.^^


Regards,

Placebo:)

7:42 pm
January 12, 2012


ShaneMontgomery

San Diego, CA

Member

posts 3

Hi Placebo,

It sounds like you have a more disciplined framework implemented than a lot of players, so kudos for that.

Have you considered dividing your time up in a different way. For instance, what about studying/reviewing one day, then playing one day?

Also, what is driving your volume target? Why are you so concerned about volume?

Good idea with the Tilt Journal. I can't see any bad coming from having a brutally honest dialog with oneself over such a topic.

- Shane

9:26 am
January 13, 2012


Placebo

Member

posts 18

Hi:)

Have thought about seperating it more agressively, namely daily.

But then I rly would lack too much volume.


The reason why I aslo have to be oncerned about volume is b/c I am playing poker for a living.

But I am not a masstabler (play usually on average 5-6 tables), so it is more difficult to get it a reasonable volume…

1:24 pm
January 13, 2012


ShaneMontgomery

San Diego, CA

Member

posts 3

Yea, it certainly couldn't hurt to try out splitting up your time differently. I'd suggest two to three weeks, see how you do with that.

With regards to your volume and # of tables,

In a poker game, we are faced with hundreds of decisions when we sit down at the table. Each one of these decisions is a side-effect from a situation on the table we are put in, and each decision leeches a various amount of energy from us.

So, I think it's fair to assume that if we lessen the amount of complex decisions we have to make in a poker game we could start adding more tables.

One way we can do this is practice equity calculations away from the table. One thing I have been attempting to do is estimating my equity on the flop each hand against a range, which is based on opponent preflop actions.

Just imagine if you developed the muscle memory to call out your equity on nearly every street almost instantly. This certainly IS NOT the answer to winning poker, and there's obviously many more variants to consider. But this would be a tool in your arsenal for easing some of those energy leeching complex decision points in a match.  I think a tool like this would enable you to add more tables confidently and therefore allow you to grind more volume.

You sound like a really experienced player and someone trying to get better. If you're interested in working practice sessions or to discuss hands, private message me and perhaps we can skype!


10:16 pm
January 14, 2012


Placebo

Member

posts 18

thx for your comment^^, will send you a pm with my skype-contact…


About the Jared Tendler Poker forum

Currently Online:

6 Guests